Iran? North Korea? Oil Prices? Nah, Flag Burning!

North Korea is officially poised to test a missile that is packed with enough boost and thrust to hit the United States. We’re currently engaged in one headline-starving, less prioritized war (Afghanistan), and another occupation where nearly 20,000 American soldiers have suffered injury, and to which another 2,500 have given their lives. We have incredible, gaping holes in our national security here at home, most notably at our nation’s ports, as well as an Iranian regime that is moving along quite nicely with its nuclear facilities – you know because the nation sitting on the 3rd largest oil reserve on the world needs to turn to nuclear power for its financial precedence. The national debt and federal government expansion, both led by the small-government, fiscally responsible Republicans, are the largest in American history, and those in the gulf and southeast coasts are wondering how well FEMA and local governments will respond during this, the start of Hurricane season.
So to what can we attribute the focus of the RepubliFear Congress? Gay marriage, and flag burning (priorities apparently listed in that order).
We all know the Gay marriage amendment, having been the first amendment in history to limit the freedom of a particular group rather than to broaden liberties for Americans, didn’t even make it to the floor for a Constitutional vote.
So, the Republicans have decided they’d take advantage of the national hyper-patriotic mood. They’re going to protect the actual symbol of the United States, instead of protecting the actual freedoms for which that symbol stands.
Now of course, Bush-supporters who read this site need thing broken down to a very simplistic, black and white level, so allow me to indulge them for just a second, and perhaps pre-emptively disarm these people of their obnoxious retorts ahead of time (this part isn’t for the progressives – you can simply skip down 2 paragraphs):
I’m not IN FAVOR of flag-burning. I’ve never burned an American flag, nor would I. When I see people burn the American flag, I’m not happy, proud or supportive – similar to when I see someone performing other unappealing, yet perfectly legal acts – say spanking their kid, or smoking while pregnant (both of which aren’t against the law, but actually affect another person physically, as opposed to flag desecration). What I am in favor of, as kooky as it sounds, is freedom of speech and expression, and to me, discarding a piece of cloth made in china, however vulgar the means, is much less destructive than discarding the freedoms, protections and history that particular cloth symbolizes. That cloth flag burned in San Francisco’s Haight district was not in the South Pacific sacrificing its life during WWII – my grandfather however was, so I’d rather honor him and the freedoms he helped secured, rather than that cloth sewn in 2005.
(Progressives and critical thinkers may now rejoin).
The Senate has projected it has 66 votes in favor of an anti-flag desecration amendment, which reads “The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States." To those Senators, I would like to make the following points:
So yes, Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton et all, you’re a bunch of sellouts. Welcome to the wedge issue summer of ’06, and thanks for bowing down to political pressure before bowing to the Constitution. Reason #4,212 I will not support any kind of Hillary primary win is due to the fact that she’ll move more and more to the right like some sort of Sean Hannity cocktail party whore, and this will be on record with all of the other concessions she’s made.
Either way, with or without Democratic support, it’s predicted that this Amendment will at least past the Senate, and become the law of the land before too long, so perhaps it’s wise to ask, just as I did with the death penalty, which nations will be keeping us company philosophically speaking. Here are some of note:
Nazi Germany
China
The former Soviet Union
Iraq (under Saddam)
Iran
Cuba
North Korea
As you ponder joining that stellar group, consider a quote I saw somewhere: "I would rather someone was wrapped in the Constitution burning the flag than wrapped in the flag burning the Constitution."
Or, perhaps Title 1, Chapter 4, Section 8 of the U.S. Code ("Respect for flag") might shed some light on the subject:
"The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."

38 Comments:
these are smokescreen issues to get everyone's knickers in a knot so that we aren't focusing on real issues such as erosion of civil liberties- domestic spying, classifying documents, secret prisons, police barging unannounced into homes, police allowed to search with flimsy 'probable cause' if any, internet tampering through the demise of net neutrality and mining info, curtailing freedom of speech, lying, manipulating, corruption- oh you know. that is why i am angry at the left. yes, many of the issues- immigration, etc are important but not pressing. we need to focus on pressing issues and not waste our energy fighting flag burning, etc. not saying that you are- i am speaking in a general manner for all lefties.
Angry with the left??? Was that a misprint, betmo???
Were you angry when President Clinton utilized "Rendition?"
Were you angry when Jamie Gorelick put up a "wall" between our law enforcement and intellegence agencies?
You probably discovered your anger when AlGore and the DNC FAILED to get ENOUGH dead people out to vote. Or was it when you discovered that a large number of Florida's "Dem" voters couldn't figure out arrows on a ballot?
MoveON
I never even thought of burning the flag. At one of the Anti War demos down in DC I saw a group of Anarchists burning one. At the time it upset me. Yet the daily acts of the Bush Regime sully the flag so much more.
I will never burn the flag. Unless they make it illegal. I've already mailed my Reps. of such. I'll burn it right in front of their offices and on the Mall.
Peace.
I'm ashamed of the "leaders" of our country ; not our country itself. I put up a flag on my house this month for the first time ever. I WANT people to ask me why! Then I can explain to them how our amazing country that was so respected around the entire world after 9/11 was hijacked by a complete f*cking moron and his flock of sheep!
I want the respect of the world again, and I'm willing to fight for it. . .
Funny as I was reading your post I thought to myself, "Wasn't I taught in Boy Scouts that you burn the flag when it gets torn and tattered?" And then you mentioned that point. Well said...great post.
no- vp- it wasn't a misprint and no- i found my anger when stupidity and ignorance became the norm- not just in washington it seems.
P.S.~
If Hillary is the nominee I won't abstain but rather I'll vote for the socialist candidate or something. The Dem party would deserve losing if they give the nod to Hillary.
people voting for Socialists.......Being compared to Nazi Germany and North Korea.... ???
I guess thats par for the course around here.
yes, this whole banning of the flag bruning ordeal is nonsense. No doubt. With that said, your comparisons are idiotic.
With Socialists agreeing with you, how could you go wrong !!!..
good luck with that.
Uhh...yes, if Nazi Germany and North Korea both currently ban desecration of their nations' respective flags, and we do the same here in America, then yes, one draws the comparison in that we both share the same extremist view on how to treat a piece of cloth.
Now, did I say, "America's government is like that of Nazi Germany." No, not yet anyway :-)
However it is important to note the company we keep both in terms of flag burning and in terms of the death penalty.
And my question back to you would be, do you think we might want to strive a bit higher - perhaps place our own bar above that of those governments in our legislation?
Yes , we want to strive higher. We are not doing so by drawing assinine comparisons.
" Nazis like beer, I like beer.I must be a Nazi ?!?!?! "
It's comparisons like that, that do nothing for our image. This debate about the flag has been out there before your target of hatred, The GOP and GWB, was in power. I realize the flag burning debate is a stupid arguement and needs not to be debated or brought up in a formal government manner in any way. I also realize that making comparisons in any manner to us and Nazi Germany is also regarded as horse crap. Regardless if the idiots in power deem burning our flag illegal or not.
I also want to add, that it is currently legal to burn the flag, so keep your ingenius comparisons under your giant fur hat until you and your comrades have to line up in the breadline.
First thing’s first. No, comparing the Nazi's taste for beer with another civilization's fondness of the beverage does not make them alike, and to suggest that comparison has anything to do with mine makes you sound mildly to moderately jackassed.
Keeping with the theme of your horse shit argument, the reason why it doesn’t fly is because many civilizations like beer, therefore there is no distinction making the two groups alike. In other words, 98% of nations don’t ban burning the flag, so we are alike in the sense that we are joining those that do…and so I’ve said, “hey, look around and see who is in the small, 2% (its actually a much smaller percentage) bucket that we're poised to join - this is who we’re associated with on this topic. Not a very savory group.”
Conversely, 98% of the world includes beer consuming nations, including us and the former Nazi Germany, therefore there is no distinction.
(Now that we’ve have philosophical comparisons 101 out of the way…)
Secondly, your argument that something is legal today, therefore one’s panties shalln’t be bunched even though there is a possibility that behavior could be made illegal tomorrow, is absurd.
It would be like debating in Congress today whether or not we should outlaw abortion at the federal level, and having a strong possiblity of that becoming law, and you dismiss everyone’s concerns by blurting out, “hey, it’s still legal today, everyone just relax.”
Do I really need to tell you why that point of view doesn’t makes sense…like, at all?
Perhaps instead I’ll tuck that back under my fur hat and let you figure it out on your own, Plato.
... if Nazi Germany and North Korea both currently ban desecration of their nations' respective flags, and we do the same here in America, then yes, one draws the comparison ...
Jeremy, you do know that Nazi Germany is not currently operational??? Did they skip chapters on WWII in your local schools? You and Illinois Senator Dick Durbin both seem to think that Nazi Germany has been reborn as the U.S. Military Machine, slyly operated by Blackwater USA and Halliburton. Sounds more like delusional thinking (classically illustrated by the noisy left fringe) than common sense or Solid Logic.
Good Day.
" witty, smooth, totally a self centered masterpiece " ..New York Times
" intrigueing, yet riveting on many philisophical levels "....Washington Post
"Great retort, it made milk shoot out of my nose"...Wilfred Brimley
"Applause"...bed wetters across the web.
Now that we got the congrats out of the way, it's my opinion. Your comparison is as lame as burning the flag, argueing about burning the flag, banning burning of the flag, Flag day and Flag boxer shorts.
IT'S my OPINION. Thats all, sorry if you can't handle it. I realize my Nazis like beer , we like beer comparison was ridiculous, that was the point. Whats even more ridiculous is how you need to explain why it was ridiculous. Ridiculousness cubed.
I understand your points. I agree with you that banning the burning of the flag is in fact hypocritical and wrong. Sorry if you can't handle the fact that I think your comparisons are horseshit and need to resort to ad hominem.
Well said, Eric.
Oh, state your opinion all you'd like. It doesn't mean I can't reject it. Stop rejecting my rejections, and I'll stop comparing your comparisons.
Hey Dick, I wonder when your thin, snake-lipped crooked smile would grace us again. I saw a great piece on your administration last night and air pollution levels in the midwest and east coast.
Had a lot to do with children, acute asthma attacks, pre-mature deaths, kids who can't play youth sports because of your EPA changing pollution laws etc.
Real charming, Richard...are those Republican family values, or do they have more to do with voting against the Martin Luther King holiday?
Yeah, Eric, well said. Now you have someone who actually uses a photo of Dick Cheney to represent his blog and his ideas, virtually high-fiving you. Well done indeed :)
Sucks that acute asthma attacks, pre-mature deaths are caused by Dick Cheney. It was so nice before Cheney, when none of that happened. Remember those days when the EPA protected people from those things. Blaming Dick is the logical explanation.
jeremy,
I read your answer and left a response on Betmo's blog, under the same entry. Thanks for your opinions
Anon, if it weren't people like you sticking up for the federal government, I don't know where they would be today. Does the White House personally send you cards at Christmas time?
Instead of making the comment you just made, why not say, "I know absolutely nothing about this topic, but here's what I'm going to do to defend the administration:"
Here is the truth: the laws the EPA had under Clinton and Gore were much different my friend. There were provisions in place so that coal burning plants would be forced to upgrade their facilities with environmental scrubbers that would eliminate over NINTY percent of the pollution emitted by these facilities. Please, I’m begging you – challenge me with the Clinton/Gore environmental record vs Bush/Cheney…that is a debate I’d LOVE to have. I’d love nothing more.
Had these provisions still been in place, it would have prevented an estimated 150,000 deaths a year from asthma attacks. And yes, the scrubbers are expensive, and it would cost the energy companies some extra money, perhaps limiting their CEO’s to 2 ivory back scratchers instead of 3. My condolences to them.
Here’s something else I bet you didn’t know. Maine has one of the cleanest environmental records of any state East of the Mississippi – yet we have just about the highest rate of adult asthma in the country. Why do you think that is anon? Its because the jet stream carries all of that shit from Ohio, PA, IL, and other Midwestern states into our region and we get the brunt of it. It’s like being on the other end of a tailpipe from a diesel truck. Collins and Snowe, both Republicans, have been MAJOR outspoken critics of the administration’s policies.
Does Bush/Cheney sit there and try to map out ways to hurt children? Of course not (at least not as far as we know). But look at who runs their energy policies – they replaced the people leaving the EPA (people like Christie Todd Whitman, the Republican who resigned over this very issue) with people from the energy industry! That’s like putting a bunch of convicted felons in charge of the criminal justice system. Look at who the big energy companies contribute to around election time. Do you realize that most of the CEO’s of the largest coal burning companies in the country are Bush Pioneers, meaning they donate so much to his campaign that they have surpassed any other contribution level to the point where they have the highest donor designation in the entire camp? Why do you think that is anon?
Since the Bush Cheney policies have been in effect, childhood and adult asthma has skyrocketed. What do you think - Bush/Cheney are just unlucky? Although I’m sure they appreciate your devil’s advocate role, how about for once you show some fucking sense of accountability for these guys - just once...humor me.
nice entry,You impress me with your indepth knowledge .I am serious for such a young. Thanks for watching our backs
Hey, I understand how lax Bush is towards many things you mentioned .I realize his Admins policy compared to Billy Bobs.I realize whats up. To say that his policy is directly responsible for all the things you listed health wise is not 100% fact. It's not entirley empirical. It seems you buy everything they sell to you, but I my friend am not so gullible. It's all for a political purpose. Yes, this Administration was not as tough on many industrial environmental regulations, they are not as green as I or you would like. But they are regulating on many fronts and when all is said and done, the restrictions that are in place are truly not that different from what was in place five years ago, and you have no proof that this admin. is directly a cause for asthma rates on th erise in Maine. it's speculation. Although the environment It is still better then 20 years ago, thanks to Billy bob and his stance on many issues. No doubt. Liberals are more conscious when it comes to this. Don't try to paint me as someone who doesn't understand the facts.
I have stated many times what this admin is accountable for. I have stated that on many occasions whats wrong with this admin. Don't even try that crap. Not every conservative falls into the stereotypes you perpetrate here on a daily basis.
Thanks Dawn – although talk to me on my 30th birthday, I won’t feel quite so young then.
And anon- I’m not saying all Republicans are responsible for this awful environmental shit…Christie Todd Whitman was actually a moderate and pretty decent. She resigned basically in disgust over this stuff and stated later that the “wanting to spend more time with the family” bullshit that every Bush Admin official has used when they resign was exactly that.
Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins have been surprisingly tough on this administration, and Lincoln Chafee has been outstanding on a lot of issues as well. You don’t have to speak to me about moderate Republicans or those that don’t fit the stereotype of the pasty, rich, triple-chinned hog-looking cigar smoker. Three of the four moderate Republicans left in the Senate come from New England after all.
However, yes, there is a direct – an absolutely, statistically valid undeniable direct connection between childhood asthma and the old, dirty coal burning plants that are not upgrading with their air scrubbers. Let me try to lay it out a little better because I tend to be misunderstood a lot by you – and forgive the 4th grade chalk board example, I’m really trying to be clear, not be a wise ass (for once):
I’m not saying this:
Dick Cheney + Bush = Asthma
I am however, suggesting this:
Dick Cheney + Bush = energy industry sweethearts = giant donations to their re-election = energy industry appointees = a rise in air pollution = you and I and our kids getting more sick more often.
How’s that sound?
It sounds like an uneducated regurgitation of distorted facts to prop up a political standpoint.
Many facts point directly to air pollution being on the way down for the past 50 + years. We have more facts backing up asertions that the rise in Asthma in children can be linked to Obesity, not air quality. But for your political postering, your side isn't going after the FDA or food in schools. That doesn't seem to make for political headway. You have more people biting on the air quality issues and linking it to the fact that Bush is in office.Rendering him responsible. Just like almost everything else from Hurricanes to War, while disregarding headway made anywhere positive. You and the drive by media share common goals. Disregard anything positive for this administration, while shouting at the top of your lungs the negative. Whiel some may be nothing but mere smoke and mirrors to gain political headway, which you still seem to avoid.
So deny the Sadam Dossier, WMD found in Iraq, the fact that Air & water have been getting cleaner, the economy is booming, the War on terrors successes, the fact that no documented issues of abuse have occured at Gitmo and whatever else you want to make political gains. go for it . You are just a pawn in the game of obstructionism. Anything bad for our country in the eyes of people who have hated us for a long time, is good for your cause.
Anonymous I think the two of you should agree to disagree .After reading your entry I wonder how open you really are.
Anonymous I think the two of you should agree to disagree .After reading your entry I wonder how open you really are.
Anonymous I think the two of you should agree to disagree .After reading your entry I wonder how open you really are.
Anonymous I think the two of you should agree to disagree .After reading your entry I wonder how open you really are.
Wait wait...this is HUGE BREAKING NEWS?! I didn't see this on CNN or Fox?
We found the banned WMD's in Iraq?
Praytell, share with us your story. This entire time the entire world has been thinking there weren't any found, but apparently we were all wrong?
Also, I didn't know Bush had no responsibility regarding Katrina as well? Can you talk to me about FEMA's response, who was hired and how that was handled?
We're listening.
Yes, Jeremy, Over 500 Banned Chemical and biological war heads have been found in Iraq. Saddams dossier has also uncoverd that more are to be found and many links to terrorism. Remeber, these are the weapons in which he was supposed to destroy. CNN and FOx are covering this, I'm surprised you haven't heard about it. It blows your Bush Lied nonsense crap out of the water. They are the weapons in Which resolutions 1441,687,678 pertain too.
Bush had alot of responsibility in his lame ass response to Katrina. Read what I said. I'm not talking about his response, I'm talking about the actual Hurricane, in which people of your ilk actually think Bush was responisble for. Bush policy has made more Hurricanes possible they say. Since he is polluting the earth so much, he is warming the waters. He made katrina happen. I didn't think it, people who share common goals with your mind set did. I realize his response was horrible once we figured out that alot of people didn't heed Nagins and federal evacuation policy. Sucks that people in a city below sea level didn't evacuate when they were told to, sucks that nagin and FEMA and Bush had buses sitting in the Garages not helping people. Sucks Bush didn't get the Guard there quickly. Sucks all around .Bush is the most to blame. No doubt. So once again, stop trying to play that game of thinking you have me figured out. Stop pidgeon holing people who disagree with you.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/22/060622055545.07o4imol.html
Theres where you can find the WMD story. It is also on FOX, but I bet you would implode if you were to visit that site.
I also watched CNN cover it, as well as MSNBC. On Tv, Go figure.
Ahh, yes, I found it - Mr. Santorum takes a break from gay bashing and jumps into the WMD hunt. Here’s the most interesting piece from the article you just cited:
A Pentagon official who confirmed the findings said that all the weapons were pre-1991 vintage munitions "in such a degraded state they couldn't be used for what they are designed for."
I actually found some more coverage of it:
"Neither the military nor the White House nor the CIA considered the shells to be evidence of what was alleged by the Bush administration to be a current Iraqi program to make chemical, biological and nuclear weapons."
And of course the DOD themselves disavow the claim:
"Fox News’ Jim Angle contacted the Defense Department who quickly disavowed Santorum and Hoekstra’s claims. A Defense Department official told Angle flatly that the munitions hyped by Santorum and Hoekstra are “not the WMD’s for which this country went to war.”
If these weapons were operable Saddam would have used them, but they’re old munitions built and rotting away from the Iran/Iraq war. When it was legal to do so. When they got many of them from Reagan.
Here’s another report from the Bush administrations group investigating such weapons:
“While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible Indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter.”
You’re right about one thing though anon. I did miss the news coverage of it. Maybe because it’s not news? The MSM would be tripping over each other drooling to get their hands on a story like this…it would be the most significant find in 4 years, are you kidding me? I give you an A for effort though.
Christ you know your case is weak when Alan Colmes debunks you:
COLMES: Congressman, Senator, it’s Alan Colmes. Senator, the Iraq Survey Group — let me go to the Duelfer Report — says that Iraq did not have the weapons our intelligence believed were there. And Jim Angle reported this for Fox News quotes a defense official who says these were pre-1991 weapons that could not have been fired as designed because they already been degraded. And the official went on to say these are not the WMD’s this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had and not the WMD’s for which this country went to war. So the chest beating that these Republicans are doing tonight thinking this is a justification is not confirmed by the defense department.
SANTORUM: I’d like to know who that is. The fact of the matter is, I’ll wait and see what the actual Defense Department formally says or more important what the administration formally says.
I apologize, I meant to expand the quote from the Bush Administration's committee above...
"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible Indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad's desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.
The chief weapons inspector, Charles Duelfer, has now issued a comprehensive report that confirms the earlier conclusion of David Kay that Iraq did not have the weapons that our intelligence believed were there."
Actually anon, this is starting to make front page news...here's one entitled: "Officials: U.S. didn’t find WMDs, despite claims"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13480264/
Well, at least Sean Hannity thinks this is a big deal:
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/H-C-Santorum-Classified-WMD.wmv
WMD have been found. Whether or not they are from the iran war, Reagans handouts, Gulf War.They are WMD and They were not documented being destroyed by Saddam like he was supposed to do in in all of the resolutions. And all of the resolutions clearly state, that if he didn't comply, we would take over his country.
They are inoperable. They can't be "of mass distruction," if they're "of mild discomfort."
They couldn't be used militarily. The DOD of defense, the PENTAGON itself has dismissed this...only you, Sean, Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh have not.
This is evidence presented by a Senator who is looking his political demise right in the eye, this is a desperate move and its been dismissed by everyone.
Let me ask you this: You always say you don't really like O'Reilly, Hannity, that whole crew, and that associating you with them stereotypes you has one of "those" conservatives and that it is unfair because you really don't agree with them...
Why then is it that you're always...agreeing with them? You mimic their talking points almost daily...even on things only the most extreme sliver of the right clings to (battling the world's scientists on global warming theories for example).
for one thing, not every scientist agrees with you on the Global Warming theories.They are theories, not fact. It's educated guesses and there are a myriad of other documented scientists who also provide other theories.I am willing to here them all. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm not saying it does. I'm not saying people are causing it, I'm not sayin gthey aren't. I am in the middle of weighing all the options layed out. There are Dr.s proving that the Sun is the cause, maybe they are right. I wouldn't just take one sides word on it, when there are conflicting opinions. Weigh the options.
The evidence on WMD in Iraq has been streaming out for the past 12 years. All of this information that santorum is trying to trump up has been evidence for ever. WMD existed in Iraq. Operable or not is not the point. I don't believe Saddam was ever a threat to us directly with these WMD. Thats not the point. The point is, he had not followed the rules that were imposed on him due to a treaty of Surrender. The rules were laid out.Among many other reasons. Now, I don't know if my stand point is shared with the group you listed, and I don't care . I don't try to generalize as much as you do. If I share some things in common, that doesn't mean I share all things in common. I don't listen to any of those people you listed. If I do share some common talking points, it's pure coincidence, I don't know. Who cares.
Continue to think I am in agreeance with this admin on all points, even contrary to what I say here.I think they have done a horrible job on many levels when it came to War against Iraq. With that said, I was for going into Iraq and taking out Saddam since 91. HE was one of the worst mistakes we as a country have ever invented. Every president since we propped Saddam up has been trying to clean up that mistake. It's about time someone did.
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